Emanuel Perdis

So the way the brand is presented at all times has to be spot on?

Yes, spot on and a lot of effort goes into that, making sure it’s consistent across all points at all times. And the other thing obviously is you see a lot of money going into marketing. At the end of the day marketing is that wonderful big black hole that money sinks into and you hope at the end of the day money spits out. You don’t always see the visible effects and result of it but you just see it fattening your top line and your bottom line.

A lot of the marketing has been built around Napoleon. I know he has a reality TV show in the US and he’s regularly making appearances in the media. How important is having a real face to the brand?

It’s very important in the fact that it gives you an edge. It is not the edge and only an edge and I’ll explain to you why I say that. Napoleon’s been 90% absent from the Australian market for the last four and a half years and yet it still keeps ticking over, it still keeps moving. We do our best to make sure the product is the first and foremost the star. Secondly it’s the education behind the product and how we deliver that education. Napoleon is really the cherry on the cake. It’s great and it’s fantastic to have a live dynamic and flamboyant personality to represent and embody the brand, but what the last four to five years has demonstrated very clearly is that the brand has been able to stand on its own feet with its own merits independent of the personality that drives and gears it.

So that would give you confidence if there’s a succession issue with Napoleon, the brand can keep going.

Most definitely, it’s proven that time and time again.

The make-up academies that you operate are a lesser-known part of your business but I’m thinking are really important from the way that you create brand advocates as well sort of an alternate revenue source.

Correct, that’s one of the biggest assets of the Academy in that it is a machine that does generate brand advocates. And it feeds itself, because the brand advocates pay to come and do courses, they purchase products and they go out there, advocating and indoctrinating others with the same fervour and passions and beliefs.

The other aspect is that it gives the brand a very unique flavour in that education is at its core and is the backbone of the brand and there is no other make-up artist or make-up brand that education plays such a huge role. Education is part of the brand’s empowerment philosophy. Because at the end of the day if you educate, you empower. The butterfly motif in our packaging and in our brand is that sense of empowerment through education and that sense of coming out of the chrysalis and flying away with that knowledge and that colour.

Would I be right in saying most of those students would be female?

You’d be right in saying that.

I guess that gives you quite a unique perspective on a big group that would be female entrepreneurs?

Yes and just to add to that there are trickle down effects. For example, you have young beauty college students who’s doing her beauty course or her hair course, she comes and does a Napoleon Perdis make-up course, she really loves it and so when she goes and she’s employed by hairdresser X, she says you know what we should do, we should also sell make-up here and by the way you have to got to get Napoleon, I’m trained in it, I’ll help you sell it.

It’s a good way for the brand to sell and drive. Same thing happens for staff members that work for other brands and cosmetic companies, they’ll come and do our course and where there are gaps or holes in their product rage, they’ll be naturally informed and aware of Napoleon Perdis and fit them in.

We try to do that as a brand and personally myself I am a champion of female empowerment and entrepreneurship. Being surrounded by women everyday and having a wife and a daughter, they really are incredible and they have historically been treated as a second-class citizen politically, economically and socially. I’d like to see them more empowered and better off.

And in lots of instances students would go on to have their own salons or businesses.

Correct.

What do you make of the state of female entrepreneurship in Australia? Do we do enough to encourage female entrepreneurs?

I think we could do more. Women entrepreneurs are very technically-savvy and customer-savvy, unfortunately the system sometimes lets them down from a business, commercial sense. They don’t always have the ability and knowledge to dot the Is and cross the Ts and become commercially-savvy. You can have somebody who will generate for example amazing revenue but if she doesn’t have the capability to negotiate a good lease or negotiate good suppliers, a lot of her hard work or profitability gets eaten up by costs because she doesn’t have the commercial acumen to necessarily control and drive down.

That’s where I think the country and the system could do better in commercially training and commercially preparing entrepreneurs.

Now I know in you spare time you’re a counsellor and a trained negotiator. For our SME audience out there what’s a big thing to remember when tackling a negotiation? What are some of the first things you should always do?

There are three things. First of all you need to be very well aware that you know your needs and you know the customer’s needs and if you don’t know, do everything in your power to find them and through skilful use of questions and listening, you’ll do that.

And the second thing is relationships – you know you get more out of life and you get more out of business situations if you’ve taken the time to build good relationships, friendships, rapport, and it’s a general rule that people will give things to people easier and more plentifully that they like. If someone doesn’t like you, they’re not likely to give you much. But if they like you, they’ll give you that extra tip, they’ll give you that extra support.

And the third thing is women have to learn and generally entrepreneurs have to learn is to say no. So needs, relationships and “no” are very important in negotiations, they are the three key tips. Listening and respectfully listening is the most generous or inexpensive concession you can make and the person feels respected and they feel at the end of the day that their needs have been taken into consideration. They would be my top three tips.

Getting back to the Napoleon Perdis business, given that we’re starting to see some really good signs of recovery in Australia and some light at the end of the tunnel at the US, what’s the focus for your business over the next 12 months?

The focus for our business would have to be in terms of making sure that our market share is secured and that it’s growing, it’s growing in new areas. The most important thing is that we create and we maintain an environment that attracts but also keeps the most amazing talent so we can be amazing ourselves.

Are you gearing up for a bit of a war for talent as the economy improves?

Not really, because I think the war never stopped, so I kept on fighting it. I keep making and taking initiatives to make sure the people actually enjoy work and find meaning and are rewarded.